过去四个月，在中/美大学工作的我们“摸着石头过河”

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Illustrator: Carolyn Figel

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-15/the-covid-19-college-gap-year-exposes-a-great-economic-divide

新冠肺炎疫情给全球各地的高等教育机构带来了巨大挑战。来自学生和家长的恐慌，加上疫情相关信息和政策的不断变化，使得这场危机应对注定无章可循。超过15亿的学生和青少年受到闭校影响。高校的财政收入短缺已经并将继续引发裁员，干扰教研和其它校园活动。

对于拥抱跨国界交流和多元性的国际化高校来说，新冠疫情带来的影响更为复杂。过去的几个月里，来自这些高校的国际学生和海外留学生们面对航班和边境管控的事实，遭遇了一系列的身心动荡。 

疫情期间，中美高校如何应对史无前例的挑战？高校职工和管理人员又是如何“摸着石头过河”的？我们在4月初与三位高等教育从业者进行了两个连线对话，通过本期推送与大家分享。

*文字整理有编辑和删减。完整对话内容请听下方音频，或在网易云音乐/喜马拉雅/苹果播客上搜索“unCoVer”，订阅我们的播客。

The COVID-19 pandemic has posed major challenges to higher education institutions all over the world. Panic and concerns from students and parents, together with the changing information and policies around an evolving outbreak, has made universities pivot in multiple directions in response. More than 1.5 billion students and youth across the globe are affected by school and university closures. Catastrophic shortfalls in university revenue is causing job cuts and disruptions to learning, research and other campus activities. 

In particular, for global universities that celebrate and rely on diversity, international mobility and cross-border exchange, there are extra layers of the COVID-19 impact. Confronted with the harsh realities of travel restrictions and border control, the foreign and study-abroad student populations have experienced a series of non-voluntary movements and emotional turmoil. 

How are universities in China and the U.S. responding to the unprecedented challenges? In dealing with the crisis, how are student affairs professionals “crossing the river by feeling the stones”? In early April, we spoke with three higher ed insiders, and this issue presents the highlights from our conversations. 

*Transcript has been edited and condensed. To listen to the full conversation, play the audio below; or search and subscribe to our podcast “unCoVer” on Apple Podcast or Acast.

本期嘉宾

David Pe

上海纽约大学学生事务部主任。本科毕业于加州大学洛杉矶分校中国文学专业。于纽约大学取得高等教育管理硕士学位，于南加州大学取得教育博士学位。

Judy Li

上海纽约大学学生事务部副主任。于华东师范大学取得法律学士和政治学硕士学位。加入上海纽约大学之前，Judy在华东师范大学任职学生辅导员。

Ariel Tan

加州州立大学长滩分校的学生事务协调员与独立学术研究员。在管理宿舍、应对危机、设计并执行住宿教育课程的同时，Ariel也致力于双文化主义、教育与社交媒体的学术研究。

David Pe

Dean of Students at NYU Shanghai. He has a BA in Chinese Literature from UCLA, Masters in Higher Education Administration from NYU, and Doctorate in organizational change and leadership from USC.

Judy Li

Assistant Dean of Students at NYU Shanghai. She has a bachelor degree in Law and Master’s degree in Politics. Before joining NYU Shanghai, Judy worked at East China Normal University as a student life advisor.

Ariel Tan

Area coordinator and independent researcher at California State University, Long Beach. As a residential life staff, her main role includes supervising paraprofessionals, managing residential halls, responding to crisis, and implementing residential curriculum for students. As a researcher, she is interested in studying the relationship between biculturalism, social media, and education.

对谈语言为英文

Conversation in English

**与David和Judy的连线 **

Conversation with David and Judy

疫情向我们展现了创建更多全球交流与合作的必要性。—— David Pe

对于高校从业者来说，这是我们去思考应当将学生塑造成什么样的人的一个重要机会。—— Judy Li

What the outbreak has actually shown us is the need to create even more exchange and work cooperatively across the stage. —— David Pe

As university administrators, it’s an opportunity to think about what kind of person we want to teach our students to become. —— Judy Li

06:02 - 8:10

你们在工作中应对疫情时，至今最具挑战性或最令人沮丧的经历是什么？

David: 在大多数危机中，你大概知道如何行动：危机发生、做决策，然后直接进入后期处理、跟进，不断进行下一步。但这次疫情中的变化太快，且朝着不同方向发展。无论是对国内还是对国外的任何人来说，如何去应对疫情都是未有先例的。

我感觉我们当时在制定有方案B、C、D、E、F的计划，因为你也不知道最后会采用哪个方案。这要求我们试想许多可能情况，不像过去我们一般依赖以往经验来作决策。刚开始时，我们不断参照当年中国应对非典时制定的流程，但后来发现，两次情况很不一样。此次危机应对是在一个新层面上的。

Judy: 面对不确定性时，不同的人有不同的舒适度。一些人倾向于采取更积极主动、更激进的方法，另一部分人则倾向于采取更保守的措施。所以，对于我而言懊恼之处就在于，作为不同政府部门和领导间的联络人，我发现各部门和领导的舒适程度不同。一些人给予这样的指令而另一些人给予那样的指令，工作起来前后不一致。所以很多时候，我们就只能自己摸着石头过河。

而且，有的时候中国真的很迷恋各种数据（笑）。有时候我会觉得有些懊恼，因为收集数据需要我们做大量工作。可是另一方面， 这些数据对我们做决定又是非常有帮助的。多亏了这些数据，我们才知道学生中有多少在上海市外，有多少在国外。最近，由于旅行限制，我们又在收集国际学生的数据。我想大概是需要这些数据为之后决定旅行限制的时长作参考。所以这又是另外一轮数据收集过程！

Source: https://www.mndaily.com/article/2020/04/n-umn-foundation-creates-covid-19-relief-fund-to-support-student-finances

06:02 - 8:10

What has been the most challenging or frustrating aspect of your work in responding to the situation since the outbreak started?

David: In most crises, you sort of know how to move along: the crisis happens; you make a decision; you then jump straight into the aftermath, the follow-up, and the next step. But this time, the change has been so rapid and in so many different directions. So it’s unprecedented for anybody, both China and outside of China, in terms of its response. 

I feel like we were working to create plans that have a B, C, D, E, F solutions because you just don’t know which one you’re going to be having to use. That requires us to think a lot about scenarios where normally we use our previous experience to help with formulating guides on decision making. We had first constantly referred back to the protocols that were put in place for China’s response with SARS, but now we see that it’s very different. The reaction now is on a different scale.

Judy: Different people have different comfort levels when they deal with uncertainties. Some people tend to take a more active or aggressive approach, and others may lean towards a more conservative approach. So the frustrating point for me is that, since I serve as the liaison to different government officials and authorities, I can see that their comfort levels are usually different. Some give one kind of directives and others may give another, which makes it inconsistent. So a lot of times, we have to navigate on our own. 

Also, the Chinese local governments are really big fans of all kinds of data (Laugh). Sometimes I feel a little frustrated, because it’s so much work to collect those data. But on the other hand, those data are very helpful to our decision-making process. For the Chinese students’ returning, thanks to the data collection, it’s very clear how many were outside of Shanghai, how many were outside of China. Recently they are also collecting the data regarding the international students because of the travel ban – I think they basically need that data to make their later decisions on how long they want to hold the travel ban and when they want to release them. So it’s another round of data collection!

08:10 - 10:50

你们如何应对政策变化，比如跟航旅、出入境和高考相关的政策？这些政策对你们的日常决策有何影响？

Judy: 每当我看到一项新政策或指示，我会尝试去理解它是什么意思，对我们有什么直接影响。宣布暂停外国人入境的那天下午，我接到两位很久没与我联系的当地官员的电话。他们问了我一些非常笼统和随意的问题，弄得我一头雾水。我发短信给David，说我不确定他们是什么意思。当天晚上大约11点左右，突然有消息宣布了暂停外国人入境的消息。我很吃惊，但随后就领悟到下午那两通电话的意图了。

当我看到高考推迟的消息时，我对自己说“噢，我们恐怕不能在八月准时开展新生欢迎周活动了。”通常高考成绩公布需要一个半月的时间，那么如果高考推迟到七月初，成绩就会在八月中旬才能公布。那我们怎么可能让中国学生在八月底入学？我们又不想在欢迎周将中外学生分开，这就意味着我们必须把新生的欢迎周推迟，让其他年级的学生先开学，或者做其他决定。

高考延迟至7月7日至8日。

The Chinese Gaokao (College Entrance Exam) is delayed until July 7th and 8th.

Source: https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1005414/china-delays-college-entrance-exam-due-to-covid-19#

08:10 - 10:50

How do you deal with the changing policies when it comes to, for example, traveling, border control and the delay of the Gaokao (national college entrance exam)? How do those policies impact your decision making on a daily basis?

Judy: Whenever I see a new policy or directive, I try to understand what it means and what will be the direct impact to us. On the day of the announcement of the border shutdown, I received two calls in the afternoon from some local officials who hadn’t called me for a long time. They basically asked some really general and random questions, so I got very confused. I texted David and said I couldn’t understand what they wanted. That night at around 11pm, news was suddenly released that entry into China by foreign nationals would be suspended. It was kind of shocking but then I realized why I had received those two calls that afternoon. 

When I saw the announcement about the delay of Gaokao, I said to myself “Oh, we won’t be able to start our welcome week in August on time.” It usually takes around one month and half for the Gaokao score to come out, so if they take the Gaokao at the beginning of July, the score won’t be out until mid-August. Then how can we admit Chinese students by the end of August? We don’t want to separate our Chinese and international student populations for our welcome week, which means that we have to decide either to postpone the welcome week for first year students and let the other students start their semester first, or we need to make other decisions. 

12:55 - 14:55

你们认为对于国际化的高等教育来说，疫情带来的短期和长期的影响是什么？

David: 我现在能想到的两个主要方面就是国际旅行方面和经济方面。首先，旅行限制显然制造了障碍，减少了能够去到海外学校及其它交流和教育机构的人数。第二，由于疫情可能带来的全球经济衰退，一些国家的汇率将发生巨大改变。而这些改变已经初见端倪。由于兑美金或人民币的汇率在变化，我们的一些学生担心自己能否继续支付学费。因此，他们可能会需要休学以等待这段时间过去，再看自己能否有足够资金继续学业。

Judy: 我预测下一年申请上海纽约大学的中国申请者会有小幅增加。这次疫情中，一些家长已经看到了让他们在海外学习的孩子回国有多困难。由于各种不确定的情况，我想一些家长会采取更保守的措施。如果家长们仍想让孩子接受美式的高等教育，却又不想送孩子去海外，他们可能会认为让孩子入学上海纽约大学是一个理想解决方案。

麻省理工学院内的学生抗议者，标示牌上写道”并不是所有人都有家可回。” 

A student protester on MIT campus with the sign “We don’t all have homes to go to.”

Source: https://www.teenvogue.com/story/coronavirus-on-campus-students-explain-covid-19-closing-colleges

12:55 - 14:55

**What do you think is the short-term and long-term impact of COVID-10 on international higher education? **

David: The two biggest areas that come to mind are the travel aspect and the economic aspect. First, the travel restrictions obviously create a hindrance because there will be fewer people at school and in places where the exchange of ideas and the cultivation of the students take place. Secondly, with the potential global recession in the economy, some countries’ exchange rate will change drastically. We are already seeing this. We have students who are concerned about whether or not they are able to continue paying for their education because the currency now is devalued against the dollar or against the RMB. Therefore they might have to take time off and wait it out to see if they can actually afford to return. 

Judy: I would anticipate that for next year the Chinese applicants for NYU Shanghai maybe will increase a little bit. Some parents have already witnessed how hard it was to get their studying-abroad children back this time. Because of those uncertainties, I think some parents may take a more conservative approach. They may think that we are the ideal solution for them, if they still want to seek American higher education but don’t want to send their kids abroad.

14:55 - 17:45

有的人可能会说，这次疫情暴露了全球化的阴暗面，比如边界开放和巨大的流动性阻碍了病毒的遏制。你们是否认为此次疫情会导致人们对全球化持更批判性的态度，而这又是否会影响全球化时代的国际化教育？

David: 我觉得这次疫情事实上恰恰反映出了全球的联系有多么紧密，以及我们对更多信息、文化交换和协同合作的需要有多么迫切。所以我们实际上更能看到对合作的需求在不断增加，而不是在减少。

Judy: 这次疫情给了很多人一段很长的时间去减慢生活节奏，去思考教育的意义是什么，全球化的意义又是什么。我认为我们未来一定会看到大家对这些问题有更多不同的解答。我注意到人们开展“家庭式教育”的趋势，因为一些人可能还是比较倾向于面对面的教育方式。不过也有些人觉得线上教育更加有益。未来的话，我预测会有越来越多的多样化教育模式出现。

如果我们回顾历史，会发现在重大的灾难或者危机之后总会有新的机遇出现。就比如在2003年的非典疫情之后，人们才开始习惯网上购物。所以我觉得这次疫情很可能会给未来的线上教育带来更多机遇。

巴西封境期间五岁女孩与父亲一同阅读纸质书籍、观看课程录像。

A five-year-old watching a class recording along with physical books, accompanied by her father in Brazil during the lockdown.

Source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/4-ways-covid-19-education-future-generations/

14:55 - 17:45

One could argue that the outbreak has revealed the darker side of globalization, like how the openness of borders and enormous mobility have impacted the containment of the virus. Do you think that because of the outbreak, people are going to be more critical of globalization, and if that will impact international education in a globalized era?

David: I think what it has actually shown us is the fact that we are so connected globally, and the need to create even more exchange and work cooperatively across the stage. So actually I think we’ll see a need for more cooperation rather than a decrease.

Judy: This outbreak has given lots of people a time to slow down, to reflect, and also to think about what education means and what globalization means. I think in the future we will definitely see more diverse answers to that. I see the trend of homeschooling as some might still prefer the in-person education model. Some people might find online education to be more beneficial. In the future, I anticipate that there will be more diverse education models coming out. 

If you look at the history, after crises there would always be some opportunities. It was after SARS that people began to get used to online shopping. So I feel maybe this outbreak can bring more opportunities for online education in the future.

与Ariel的连线

Conversation with Ariel

成为一个全球公民，就是需要认识到，你可以选择跨越国界到另一个地方，并不意味着你可以跟世界上某些地方隔离开来。—— Ariel Tan

Part of being a global citizen is about being aware that just because you can choose to cross borders doesn’t mean you can be isolated from certain parts of the world. —— Ariel Tan

21:20 - 24:49

你能简要介绍一下你观察到的北美大学管理层应对疫情经历了怎样的阶段吗？

**Ariel: **我归纳出美国高校对疫情的反应大致有三个阶段。第一个阶段是将疫情仅当作一个地区性的问题。快到二月底时，我工作的学校公布了旅行禁令，禁止校内人员前往当时一些被疫情严重影响的国家，包括韩国、意大利、中国和伊朗等国家。但另一方面，很多大学也在发布支持中国留学生的声明，来回应北美乃至全球范围内攀升的排外现象。

之后我们就来到了“取消”这一阶段。从二月底到三月上旬甚至中旬那段时间，几乎所有的活动都取消了，研讨会、公开活动·····但这同时也让人们对保持社交距离这一做法有了更强的意识，并且更理解它的重要性。

整个疫情危机处理的关键节点是世界卫生组织在三月份正式宣布COVID-19为全球性大流行病的那个时刻。之后，蜂拥而来的关于COVID-19的信息让人无所适从。而且从这个时候开始，大多数甚至全部的大学开始将授课转至线上，然后发布要求学生迁出宿舍楼的声明。

三月中旬哈佛大学校内告示：装卸行李不准超过20分钟。

A notice in Harvard University in mid-March: Loading/Unloading 20 Minutes ONLY.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/college-education-coronavirus.html

21:20 - 24:49

Can you briefly share your observation of how the university leadership’s responses to the outbreak developed? What are the different stages in handling the situation?

**Ariel: **There are three stages. In the first stage, people were seeing COVID-19 as a regional concern. Towards the end of February, at the university I work at, we ended up having our own travel ban on a few countries which at the time were severely affected, namely South Korea, Italy, China, Iran, etc. On the other hand, a lot of universities at the time were issuing statements supporting Chinese students in response to the rising xenophobia in North America or even across the world.

Then we moved to the cancellation phase. Towards the end of February to even early or mid-March, almost all the conferences and events were getting canceled. Meanwhile, this also made people more aware of the meaning and importance of social distancing. 

The turning point really came after the World Health Organization announced COVID-19 as a pandemic in March. Then we started to have this overwhelming amount of information about COVID-19. This is when a lot of universities, if not all, started moving instructions online and issuing move-out notices for the student residents.

24:50 - 27:25

随着疫情的发展，人们对口罩的态度也发生了转变。你对此有何想法？

Ariel: 无论是否有效，戴口罩这一行为已经成为一种表态，这一表态【被认为】正确与否成了一个关于文化接受度的问题。在亚洲文化里，戴口罩更加容易让人接受。同时，也有一些心理学分析指出，戴口罩这一行为是一个心理暗示与行为推力，让人们更能察觉到自己的卫生习惯并照顾好自己。与此同时，我认为戴口罩的问题也可以归结到一种“权威感”与“证实性偏见”上。人们总会相信自己信任的权威；人们总会相信自己已经相信的。

29:42 - 32:23

跟我们分享一下你在这过程中的心路历程吧。当你对于工作上某件事有很强的立场却无法决定其走向时，你是什么感觉？

Ariel: 我感受到自己的职业准则与个人直觉之间的冲突。作为处理学生事务的高校职工，当学生问起相关信息时，我的职业准则要求我以一种专业、正式的口吻，给出与学校立场一致的答复。但是就个人而言，或者从“生存本能”的角度来说，我当时肯定是又担心又害怕的。有一段时间我真的对美国不充分的措施感到灰心气馁。

但我确实也积极地去做了一些事情。当人们有顾虑，问起我戴口罩的习惯的时候，我会跟ta们解释我的思考过程，鼓励ta们作出自己的决定；并且当ta们需要口罩的时候，我很乐意分享一个给ta们。我也在自发地做一些事情。比如，有些住宿舍的学生们还没有填迁出时间表，我就戴着口罩和手套一扇一扇门地敲，然后就问学生们：“你打算什么时候搬走呀？”之类的。记得在中国疫情初期，我在网上看到那些村干部拿着大喇叭吼：“不准聚集”“待在家里”之类的话——我觉得我当时就是这样的。我在学校里走动的时候，我是真的大声在喊“如果我是你的话，我会早点离开学校！”“大家注意！这个教室已经关闭了！” 像这样的行动其实也缓解了我的焦虑。

3月24日，2名加州州立大学长滩分校的学生新冠病毒测试为阳性。

March 24th, 2 California State University Long Beach students test positive for COVID-19.

Source: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/4491646-2-cal-state-long-beach-students-positive-for-covid-19/

24:50 - 27:25

Along the development of the pandemic, people’s attitude towards face masks has also shifted. What do you think of this?

Ariel: Effective or not, wearing masks has become a statement, and whether the statement is true or false has become a matter of cultural acceptance. For one, wearing masks in Asian cultures is more acceptable. For another, there is also psychological analysis of how mask-wearing is a psychological cue and behavioral push, in that it makes you more aware of your hygiene and take better care of yourself. It also boils down to a sense of authority as well as confirmation bias: namely, you are going to believe in your trusted authorities, and you are going to believe what you already believe.

29:42 - 32:23

Share with us your personal or emotional journey throughout the process. How did you feel when you felt strongly about something in your professional practice but had little control over it?

Ariel: My professional ethics were fighting my personal instinct. As a student affairs professional, when students ask questions, my professional ethics urge me to say things aligned with the school’s messaging in a “professional” and official way. But personally, from a “survival instinct” perspective, I definitely was scared and worried. For a while I was really frustrated and upset by the inadequate measures. 

There were a couple of actions I took, however. When people had concerns and asked me about my mask-wearing habit, I explained to them my thought process, encouraged them to make their own decisions, and if they needed masks, I was happy to share one with them. I also started doing some projects on my own. For example, with students who hadn’t filled out the form indicating their move-out time, I went door by door wearing masks and gloves, and talked to them like “Hey, when are you planning on moving out?” In the early stage of the outbreak in China, we saw on the media how some people in villages used a huge speaker to say “Do not gather!” “Stay at home!” – I felt I was just like that. I was literally shouting “Hey everyone, if I were you I would leave early!” “Hey everyone, this classroom is closed!” Honestly, doing this helped me cope with my anxiety.

32:24 - 34:30

很多中国学生和家长对于美国大学此次处理疫情的迟缓和不足感到不满。从长远来看，你认为疫情会对重视跨国、跨文化交流的高等教育造成怎样的影响？

Ariel: 很直白的就是，疫情会给高等教育带来不良的财政上的影响。美国的经济本来就不在状态，而且不在状态很久了。所以学校肯定不可避免地会经历财政预算的削减，就和2008年的金融危机一样。那么学校就会需要想方设法地寻找额外收入，例如裁减员工、增加学费和取消项目等。

但我对在高等教育国际化过程中全球公民意识的培养持有信心。成为一个全球公民，就是需要认识到，你可以选择跨越国界到另一个地方，并不意味着你可以跟世界上某些地方隔离开来。

我从12岁开始就在美国生活，所以也算是在这边生活了很长一段时间。但我对这边政策的了解和认知并不会自动转化成一种精神上的支持或者归属感。我希望此次的疫情对一些想要投身于跨文化交流的人们是一个机会，让ta思考自己对不同文化的理解应当如何转化为日常的行动，而不是只局限于认知上的”国情不同”。

音频 | Maggie

翻译 | Sandy, 雪, Maggie, Lili, Joyce

校对 | Lili, Joyce

编辑 | Joyce, Maggie

排版 | Lili

32:24 - 34:30

A lot of Chinese students and parents were dissatisfied with how the situation was dealt with by the U.S. universities, complaining about the measures being too few, too slow, and too insufficient. In the long run, how do you think the outbreak will impact higher education that values cross-cultural and cross-national exchange?

Ariel: Just straight out, there are bad financial consequences from the outbreak. The U.S. economy is not doing great, and hasn’t been doing great for a while. That means that schools will inevitably experience budget cuts again, similar to what happened in the last recession. So universities need to look for additional income, one way or another (staff layoff, tuition increase or program cancellations). 

But I feel hopeful about promoting global citizenship within the process of the internationalization of higher education. Part of being a global citizen is about being aware that just because you can choose to cross borders doesn’t mean you can be isolated from certain parts of the world. 

I have been in the U.S. since I was twelve. But my understanding and awareness of the policies here does not automatically translate into a feeling of support or belonging. Maybe the outbreak is an opportunity for those committed to cross-cultural communication to really think about how to apply one’s understanding of diverse cultures and communities to daily actions instead of a general acknowledgement that “there are different policies in different countries.”

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